24 Apr 2014
Shri Lakshman: “In your recent message You have mentioned the Jagrat, Swapna, and Sushupti as the three states and the Veda also refers to these three states only. In addition to these three states, You have mentioned the fourth state also in which the experience of impossible experience of God is done. Since the bliss is always derived from God and the bliss is also derived by the soul called as Prajna as per the Veda, why not mix Your fourth state with the state of deep sleep in the last few seconds as mentioned by You and straightly treat the soul as God? By this, only three states as mentioned by the Veda remain and hence, become valid.”
Shri Swami: The Veda deals with the three states (Jagrat, Swapna and Sushpti), which are common to all the human beings irrespective of theists and atheists. In the state of Jagrat, the soul is called as Vaiswa meaning that the soul is in association with the materialized forms because the physical items of the physical world are experienced. In the state of Swapna, the energetic forms of the dream are experienced and hence, the soul is called as Taijasa meaning that the soul is in association with energy. In deep sleep confined to the last few seconds in which the soul, which is awareness is aware of itself only and hence, the soul is called as Praajna meaning that the soul is in the highest state of awareness experiencing the excessive happiness due to long rest. The excessive happiness achieved by the soul in the end of deep sleep cannot be called as the bliss (Ananda) of God. There is lot of difference between this excessive happiness and that bliss. In Anandavalli of the Taitriya Upanishad, the quantitative difference between this excessive happiness experienced by every human being (Manusha ananda) and the bliss of God (Brahma ananda) is well explained in the scale of quantitative gradations. Hence, based on this point of happiness, you cannot mix the third and fourth states to treat the soul as God. We have already given so many arguments in several messages that the soul is not God on every ground. Such an attempt will lead you to the philosophers of Advaita, who are always in the state of day dream.
Opponent: The Veda itself mentions the word ‘Ananda’ as the experience of deep sleep, which is possible in the last few seconds of the deep sleep as per Your interpretation also. Hence, the word ‘Ananada’ or bliss experienced by the Praajna-soul establishes that the soul is God. If your explanation is correct, a different word ‘Santosha’ meaning excessive happiness should have been used by the Veda in the case of soul.
Shri Swami: The excessive happiness that is derived by the soul can be treated as Ananda, which is the highest happiness that can be derived by any soul. The word ‘Ananda’ shows the highest possible climax of happiness within the scope of ordinary human beings. The highest of one category can be named as the highest of another category as per the concept of the figure of speech called as metaphor. The most brave human being of the category of humanity is called as Lion, which is the most courageous in the category of animals. The most delicious item of food here is praised as divine nectar (Amrutam) of heaven. If the excessive happiness of the human soul itself is the bliss of God, why the same the Veda differentiates both these through a scale of quantitative gradations? In the same context, the excessive happiness of human soul is also mentioned by the word ‘Ananda’. Even the bliss of God is mentioned by the word ‘Ananda’. This common word denotes the qualitative similarity. But, the quantitative difference is also mentioned by the different prefix words ‘Manusha’ and ‘Brahma’. The water in a cup may be similar to the water in a river in qualitative sense, but, there is a huge difference in the quantities. By this qualitative similarity and quantitative difference, you should not bring both these aspects between the possessors i.e., soul and God. Soul is imaginable and God is unimaginable and hence, no attempt can be made for similarity or difference. Happiness is also imaginable item and hence, similarity and difference can be linked.
Just like the last few seconds of the deep sleep form a special state of the state of deep sleep, this fourth state of awareness of unimaginable God forms a special state of the awaken state or Jagrat. The reason is that the main basis of Jagrat is that the soul becomes the subject since it experiences some object of the world. This object must be different from the soul. The unimaginable God becomes the object, who is different from the soul. The subject-object mode is the essential feature of the Jagrat state. Hence, this fourth state can easily become the part of the first Jagrat state. In the state of last few seconds of deep sleep, there is no concept of subject-object because the soul or awareness is aware of itself. Here, there are no two different items to be called as subject and object. Hence, the fourth state cannot be mixed with the third state due to this basic difference. Hence, this fourth state is a special state of Jagrat state only just like the last few seconds of the third state of deep sleep form a special state of the state of deep sleep. By this, the total three states mentioned by the Veda remain undisturbed.
This fourth state is given a special name as ‘Meditation on God’. The special state of a few seconds in the deep sleep does not deserve this special attention because such experience of the soul exists even in the case of an atheist or even bird, animal, insect etc. The three states are experienced by the souls of all the living beings and there is no need of any special attention. The state of meditation experienced by very few devotees is far superior in which you are aware of God deriving the bliss, which is infinite quantity of happiness. Such bliss can never be enjoyed by the souls of all the living beings. The state of deep sleep is called as Tamas involving ignorance. The state of dream involves Rajas, which is quantized particles of energy. The state of Jagrat involves intelligence and knowledge called as Sattvam resulting in sharp analysis concluding that God is unimaginable. Therefore, the fourth state involves tremendous activity of intelligence to conclude that God is unimaginable. The third state involves full ignorance only and even in the last few seconds ignorance of every object still exists except that the subject or soul alone is active. Thus, there is lot of distance between the third and fourth states since the soul is far inferior to the most superior God.
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