10 Jun 2017
Shri Anil asked: Padanamaskaram Swami, A question from a Muslim devotee is enclosed
1) A muslim devotee, Imran Ahmed, on Qoura commented on the divine knowledge of Shri Datta Swami on re-birth as given below.
[Kindly give Your answer to this. Imran Ahmed
Jai Shri Datta
Your articles are very insightful and whenever I read them, I feel that it contains only truth. Thanks for your beautiful messages.
In this article you have mentioned that : “Some people think that cancellation of the rebirth in this world is salvation! This is climax of ignorance.”
During my spiritual journey so far, I had a conclusion that the key effort in spiritual path is to attain Moksha/Liberation which means cancellation of rebirth. This has been enumerated in Hindu and Sufi spiritual paths. Now you have mentioned that this is climax of ignorance.If longing for cancelling of rebirth is not the main goal of spiritual practice, then what is the main goal of spiritual practice.
As you have mentioned that: ‘The human birth is very very rare and if you are not using this birth for spiritual line, there is no need of human birth for you again.So, what is the spiritual goal for which this human birth should be utilized for?’
For your kind information, I am not new to spiritual philosophies and have done quite a bit of reading on all major spiritual philosophies, including Sri Sankara's Advaita and I have taken deekhsa from a sufi guru who is on advaita path. Here the goal taught is to attain Atma Gnanam or become Jeevan Mukta which is ultimate goal which leads to cancellation of rebirth.
Please advice your views on Jeevan Mukti n cancellation of rebirth.
Thank you for your kind reply in advance.
Regards, Imran Ahmed.]
Swami Replied: Salvation means relief from the worldly tensions for which the worldly bonds are always responsible. One should not try for salvation or detachment without attachment to God. A bond breaks only by another stronger bond. A stronger bond with God can only break the worldly bonds. Hence, salvation from the worldly bonds (worldly tensions) should be a natural consequence of the stronger bond with God. The aim shall be attachment to God and not detachment from the world. Detachment from the world is natural consequence of the attachment to God. The salvation is an indirect measure of the strength of your bond with God provided the salvation is a natural consequence of your devotion to God. In the absence of devotion to God, the salvation is impossible and meaningless since mind requires always attachment to something. A stone is having perfect salvation since it does not have any worldly bond. Can you say that the stone is having perfect salvation? Its salvation is without attachment to God.
The human re-birth is thought to be very low level in the spiritual path. This is the absolute ignorance. Even God is taking human birth again and again on this Earth to uplift humanity. Do you think that God is not having salvation because of His re-births on the earth again and again? Do you think that a devotee not having re-birth is greater than God? Absence of re-birth means absence of the re-birth with worldly bonds so that the soul participates in the work of God in human form on this Earth. Salvation does not mean not to have human birth at all. It only means not to have human re-birth entangled with worldly bonds and devoted to the family only. Such worldly birth is avoided in salvation but not human re-birth completely. The soul after salvation takes human re-birth again and again following the human incarnation in the propagation of spiritual knowledge for the welfare of the entire humanity. These misunderstandings must be removed in the concepts to realize the true sense.
Jeevan mukti means following the spiritual program of the contemporary human incarnation while you are alive. Shankara was attached to God so much that He left the house even leaving His old mother for the service of God. Of course, in the present age, you can propagate the spiritual knowledge with the help of the computer even without leaving your house, in which case you are equated with Shankara. Leaving the house is not the criterion, but doing the spiritual work is the criterion that pleases God. Due to absence of computer-facility, Shankara had to leave the house and mother for the sake of spiritual propagation. Just think about your unimaginable fortune! The IT Company pays the salary to the employee working through Laptop either working in office or working from home. The work done by the employee is the criterion for the payment and not the place.
2) Shri Balaji asked: Respected Swamiji, Some people in support of eating meat are quoting some verses from our scriptures supporting eating meat.
[My friend referred me to the following message in whassap group quoting following verses:
Manusmriti chapter 5 verse30:"It is not sinful to eat meat of eatable animals,for God has created both the eaters and the eatables".
Aapastanba Grishsutram(1/3/10): says,"The cow should be slaughtered on the arrival of a guest, on the occasion of 'Shraaddha of ancestors and on the occasion of a marriage".
Rigveda (10/85/13):declares "On the occasion of a girls marriage oxen and cows are slaughtered".
Rigveda (6/17/1) : states that, "Indra used to eat the meat of cow, calf, horse and buffalo".
Vashishta Dharmasutra (11/34):says,If a Brahmin refuses to eat the meat offered to him on the occasion of ,'Shraaddha' he goes to hell".
Hinduisms great propagator Swami Vivekaanand said thus: "You will be surprised to know that according to ancient Hindu rite and rituals, a man cannot be a good Hindu who does not eat beef ".
(The complete works of Swami Vivekanand vol :3/5/36)
"The book The history and culture of the indian people" published by Bharatiya vidya bhawan,bombay and edited by renowned historian R C Majumdar (vol 2 ,page 18 says)This is said in the mahabharata that "king Ratindra used to kill 2000 other animals in addition to 2000 cows daily in order to give their meat in charity".
Aadi shankaraachaarya commentary on Brahadaranyako panishad 6/4/18 says:'Odaan' rice mixed with meat is called 'maansodan' on being asked whose meat it should be, he answers 'Uksha' is used for an ox, which is capable to produce semen..
Kindly clarify above confusion. Sincerely, Balaji]
Swami Replied: The scriptures are primary (the Veda) and secondary (Smruti or Puranam etc). The primary scripture or the Veda has come from God and hence, is considered to be the highest authority. The Veda has come from God and it is revealed in the minds of pious sages. Each part of the Veda starts after the mention of name of the sage (Rushi), who got it from God in his mind. Generally, the sages are very pious and do not mix their thoughts in the revelation from God. Insertions by followers are also almost not possible since the Veda is preserved by transferring the text from one to other through oral recitation. I don’t say adulteration of revelation from God by a sage or insertions by some persons in the Veda are cent percent impossible. Sanskrit scholars are capable of composing hyms in the Vedic meter. Kalidasa composed a hymn in the Vedic meter in the drama named as ‘Shakuntalam’ (amiivedihparitah…). Some scholars have composed verses even in worldly meters and inserted into the Veda as you find in Shri Suktam “Lakshmeem ksheerasamudra…”. This is a worldly meter called as ‘Shaardulavikreeditam’. In this verse, even the accent (swara) is marked! Hence, do not accept any scripture without logical analysis. If you say that the Rig Veda recommends cow slaughter, the same Rig Veda says that a butcher of cow shall be shot dead by a lead bullet (Goghnam seesena vidhayaamah). This becomes a self-contradiction. This means one of the two statements must be an insertion in the Veda because self-contradiction means only madness. When this is the fate of a primary scripture, what should we speak about the insertions in the secondary scriptures? Hence, don’t accept any scripture unless you analyze it through sharp analysis (Yukti) and finally experience it (Anubhava). By this, we never mean that God has given a wrong statement or a statement that contradicts His own statement. We only mean that there is a least possibility of adulteration and insertion even in the primary scripture like the Veda. If you follow the logic and experience to test whether this statement was from God or from sage, analysis is always the true path. Had the revelation from God been transferred and preserved through recitation, such contradictions will not appear. Today, most of the people are well educated and are capable of doing very sharp analysis. God blessed the people with such sharp analysis with a view to reject any adulteration or insertion in the scripture. For this purpose only, God comes directly in human form and Human Incarnation like Buddha, Jesus, Mahavir etc, Who opposed killing of any soft natured living being (mentioned in Zoology). If one human incarnation contradicts other human incarnation, it is just a self-contradiction only. In such case, one statement must be either wrong or must have some other interpretation. The secondary scriptures and traditions need not be cared at all before the sharp analysis. The ethical scripture says that you should not even hurt (not to speak of killing) any living being (Maa himsyaat sarvabhutaani). In this case, which secondary scripture is correct? One of these two secondary scriptures must be wrong in the sense that it is insertion by some selfish person. These sinners will not only pollute the scriptures, but also pollute the life histories of great Human incarnations saying that they were non-vegetarians! Both logic and experience oppose misinterpretation of this concept, which is that one should place himself or herself in the place of the soft natured animal or bird and a demon in the place of the butcher to imagine the experience of agony during the slaughter. Logic and experience contradict such false scriptural statements rejecting those as insertions made by sinful scholars. When your statement is misinterpreted by somebody, you will feel lot of pain and go there directly to clarify the misinterpretation. The main purpose of human incarnation is this context only.
Sometimes, when more urgent issues exist, the human incarnation may overlook this issue. Such overlook does not mean that God accepted this fundamental serious issue. Sometimes, the human incarnation may also support this for some time before preaching about the control. A person, who wants to stop a fast running bull catches its rope in the neck and runs along with the bull for some steps before the bull is controlled and stopped. Such step is ratified by the requirement of psychology of a receiver, which is very essential in preaching the concepts. In this line, sometimes, partial control may be also preached like forbidding the non-vegetarian food in some holy places on some holy days. When partial control is achieved, the total control can be achieved in course of time. All these points shall be carefully understood before drawing any drastic conclusion on scriptures and preaching of God through human forms.
Shankara said that the Veda does not provoke anybody to do any sin, but, it only gives the information about a step that is strongly followed by a human being (Shaastram jnaapakam natu kaarakam). A non-vegetarian is advised by the Veda to kill an animal in a sacrifice and offer it to God before he eats it. One should not say that the non-vegetarian killed the animal since the Veda ordered to do so! Even if the Veda does not speak about killing of an animal in the sacrifice, the non-vegetarian will kill the animal to eat it. Killing is inevitable. In such case let the killing be done in a sacrifice to offer it to God before eating it. By this, the concept of God will be developed. In course of time, the non-vegetarian will stop killing the animal for food because God does not like it. This is a partial control obtained gradually in course of time. Without understanding the ultimate aim, you should not misinterpret that the Veda orders everybody to kill the animal in sacrifice! If you are confined to the initial stage only, misinterpretation can be easily projected by saying that you are killing the animal in sacrifice since the scripture orders you to do so. The scriptures is following your strong habit of non-vegetarian food for some time just like the person catching the bull runs for some time along with it. If the scripture opposes the non-vegetarian food in the beginning itself, it is equivalent to a person, who wishes to stop the fast running bull in the first step itself! If you confine to the initial stage only, you will say that the person is running along with the bull to encourage the bull to run! Similarly, you will say that the Veda is encouraging the killing of animal for food to be offered to God and then to eat!
3) Shri Anil asked: Is killing the rats a sin?
Swami Replied: When Shri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa was killing the blood (bed) bugs, a devotee was surprised. Then Shri Paramahamsa replied “These bed bugs are disturbing Me when I meditate upon God sitting on this cot. I will remove any hurdle that disturbs Me to reach the God and such an action is not a sin at all.” Of course, you are killing the same bed bugs since these drink your blood and spoil the sound sleep and health also. Health is very important in view of the spiritual effort also. Hence, killing a bed bug has some reduction in the sin since the bed bug is harming you, which disturbs your spiritual path also. Such killing is not equal to your killing a goat, chickens, cow, buffalo etc., which do not harm you at all. Killing a bed bug or a goat may be qualitatively the same sin, but both these killings are quantitatively different. Hence, before deciding the intensity of the punishment, you have to estimate carefully the intensity of the sin also based on various three-dimensional factors. Analysis of a sin and corresponding selection of the punishment are very complicated and critical. Due to this reason, the punishments vary as per the intensities of sins. When a cruel animal jumps on you to kill you, killing it is a zero sin. Killing a goat just for your food is hundred percent sin. Other cases vary between these two extreme cases and correspondingly the intensity of the punishment also varies. You must not select a single punishment based on qualitative similarity of the sins. You must differentiate the cases based on quantitative difference between sins based on several factors.
80% of the Vedas preaches about sacrifice only. 20% only speaks about knowledge and devotion. What is the reason for this? Sacrifice speaks about practical devotion whereas the knowledge and devotion speak about theoretical devotion. Sacrifice means cooking the food and its donation to the participants in the debate of spiritual knowledge. Hence, practical devotion is given 80% importance whereas theoretical devotion (knowledge and devotion) is given 20% importance. Hence, practical devotion is the sacrifice through which cooked vegetarian food is supplied to the participants. If the participants are non-vegetarians, naturally, they will eat non-vegetarian food only by killing an animal like goat. Since killing is inevitable and unavoidable in their case, the Veda says that you should atleast offer the non-vegetarian food to God and then only eat. By this, the Veda is trying to control the mind gradually step by step. This is the gradual control of non-vegetarian food and not encouragement of killing the soft natured living beings.
Rats spread very dangerous disease (plague) by stealing your cooked food and also steal food grains in the fields. This is not attack on your life intentionally. In the case of a cruel animal, the attack on your life is intentional. The cruel animal kills an innocent human being for its food just like a cruel butcher is killing an innocent animal for the sake of his food. We can excuse the cruel animal to a small extent, which eats only flesh. We can’t excuse a human being, who, can eat and also eats vegetarian food also alternatively. The stealing of food by a rat spreading plague disease without intention can’t be equated to the sin of a cruel animal or a butcher. Hence rats are caught by special boxes and are left in the forests. Anyway, killing such a rat is lesser serious sin than killing a goat. A non-vegetarian is an indirect killer of the goat and shares equal sin with the butcher. Deciding the punishment for a sin is like the tedious enquiry of a criminal case by the judge in the criminal court since this type of sin is a criminal case. The intensity of the sin must be properly estimated to decide the corresponding punishment, be it a criminal case or civil case. The punishment differs from one case to the other based on the intensity of the sin to be decided on various parameters involved in the case.
The research of Bose concluding that plants have awareness is not accepted throughout the world. However, some people take the plant as a stage of transformation from inertia to awareness and doubt the existence of awareness in a very very negligible extent. Such people consider the cutting of a green tree also as a very small sin. Based on the proportionally negligible awareness, it can be considered as a negligible sin because the experience of pain by the plant has no clear proof of evidence. Admitting the benefit of doubt, cutting of a green plant or green tree is also considered as a negligible sin. When Parvati did penance, She was taking the leaves dropped from the tree only as food and hence did not pluck even the leaves from the tree. All such examples stand for the extreme goal so that atleast lower ordinary goals can be achieved. You must always keep the extreme as your goal so that you will atleast achieve the ordinary goal in practice.
4) Shri Anil asked:
[i) In the light of seer and seen object, what is the difference between God and angels, and angels and human beings?
ii) If the unimaginable awareness or God mixes with the relative awareness of human being, there will be simultaneous existence of two types of awareness. Is it possible?]
Swami Replied: i) a) Between God and angels: God is unimaginable without any medium since medium is His creation. The entire creation is unreal with respect to the absolute or unimaginable God. Creation is just an imagination of God. In this case of imagination, the imagining agent is awareness and imagination is a mode of awareness and thus in this case the imagining element and imagination are equally real being made of same awareness. Hence, there is no simile for the concept of God and creation since God is totally real and the creation is totally unreal. There is no worldly simile for this concept because there is no second unimaginable item other than God. When we give the simile of imagining awareness and imagined imaginary world, this is the best possible simile which is not exactly equal simile. Hence, for God, the entire creation made of awareness, energy and matter is the object to be seen. But, the object is totally unreal compared to the absolute reality of God. In the case of angels, they are souls (awareness) embedded in energetic bodies without matter. For these angels also the entire creation (upper energetic worlds and materialized lower worlds along with awareness) is also an object to be seen and in this aspect both God and angels are one and the same. But, the difference is that the object is totally unreal before God whereas the object is equally real to the angels. You can include the evil spirits like ghosts in the category of angels as far as technical constitution is concerned.
b) Angels and human beings see the creation as object, which is equally real to the reality of angels and human beings. The difference between angels and human beings is the absence of sleep in the case of angels. Angels see both the upper energetic worlds as well as the other lower materialized worlds whereas human beings see only the lower materialized worlds but not the upper energetic worlds and angels due to the will of God. Angels have always awaken state whereas the human beings have both awaken state (in which matter, energy and awareness are objects) and dream state (in which energy and awareness are objects). In the absence of grace of God, a human being can never see the angels and upper energetic worlds at any time even through instruments. If the grace of God is achieved, the human being can see angels and upper worlds even with naked eyes. The energetic incarnation or human incarnation is always omnipotent due to the possessed unimaginable God. By this, the energetic incarnation can materialize into human incarnation and vice-versa. Such power is available even with some angels having the grace of God.
ii) When a human being is possessed by a ghost, two types of awareness co-exist. One type of awareness belongs to ghost and the other type of awareness belongs to the human being. In this case, both types of awareness are relative and are justified to be called as a mixture. In the case of human incarnation God or unimaginable awareness is not only invisible but also even unimaginable. In human incarnation, also, the relative awareness of human being is mixed with absolute unimaginable awareness or God. This is also called as a mixture because the unimaginable awareness can be inferred by the unimaginable events called as miracles. The proof of unimaginable awareness is only inference and not perception.
Two types of awareness can co-exist as a mixture and there is no impossibility for this. When two types of imaginable awareness exist in a human being possessed by a ghost, why not the co-existence of two types of unimaginable and imaginable awareness in human incarnation? You can see such co-existence in the last prayer of Jesus. Jesus as human being is praying God to prevent the crucifixion if possible. On knowing the will of God favorable for crucifixion, Jesus again prayed God that His will must be finally done. All the last statements of Jesus were also from the awareness of human being component only.
5) Shri Durga Prasad: In your recent message, you mentioned that there is no dream-state for angels due to absence of sleep. In this regard, what does Brahma muhurtam and subsequent wake-up timing of angels indicate?
Swami Replied: Angels have no sleep at all at any time due to the absence of matter (tamas) in them. They are always active in God’s work and work indicates Rajas or energy. Rajas means dust particles, which are nothing but the quantized corpuscles of energy. Rajas stands for work (rajahkarmani bhaarata – Gita). Continuous activity can’t be affected due to absence of sleep. Due to absence of sleep, the relative awareness of angels remains always active. Sattvam stands for awareness. In the case of human beings, this rajas along with sattvam is active in both awaken (matter also exists as object) and dream states. In the awaken state along with rajas and sattvam, tamas also co-exists resulting in wrong actions. In the dream state of human beings, only rajas and sattvam are active and hence there is no awareness of tamas. In the deep sleep, sattvam or relative awareness disappears and hence, there is no awareness of sattvam, rajas and tamas. In the state of meditation, sattvam is aware of itself only.
Brahma Muhurtam means the early morning. It is the most precious time compared to all other times. Hence, it is the greatest of all the times. The greatest of any category is called as Brahma. Muhurtam means a specific span of time. Hence, Brahma Muhurtam is the specific span of time or early morning, which is the greatest of the category of all times. The climax of preciousness is due to the long prior deep sleep that gives perfect rest to the nervous system. Due to this long perfect rest, this time becomes most fresh with climax of preciousness. Thus, Brahma Muhurtam is related to the pre-requisite, which is the existence of deep sleep. Since angels do not have dream and deep sleep, there is no context of Brahma Muhurtam with reference to angels. By the will of God, angels are never tired and every instant of time is a Brahma Muhurtam only in the case of angels. In Brahma Muhurtam, (the most fresh time) one is expected to do meditation, which is nothing but sharp analysis of spiritual points. Meditation does not mean concentrating on some form, which is of no use. This meditation is the penance as per the Veda (Vijijnaasasva… taddhitapah – Veda).
5) Shri Kishore Ram asked:
[i) You mentioned that Rama is a non-vegetarian in some place and Rama is a vegetarian in some other place. Please explain this.
ii) A baby in the womb of the mother can’t grasp the external preaching. How do you justify Prahlada in the womb of his mother becoming a devotee by the preaching of sage Narada? Similarly, Abhimanyu in the womb of his mother learning the entry of Padmavyuha (a specific mode of war) from the external preaching of his father?]
Swami Replied: i) Rama is actually a non-vegetarian only since Ramayana clearly speaks about this. But, I mentioned the other option of Rama to be a non-vegetarian since people argue that Rama is a Kshatriya, who is accepted as a non-vegetarian by ethical scripture. These people also support their logic by stating that Rama hunted deer in Panchavati forest. The actual fact is that even though Kshatriyas are permitted to eat non-vegetarian food (scripture allows certain people to eat the meat because they will not stop even if otherwise preached!), Rama is not only a Kshatriya but also the God. Hence, He is above the ethical scripture and the incident of Panchavati is an insertion. In spite of this truth, I allowed the possibility of Rama to be a non-vegetarian in view that human incarnation, sometimes, keeps silent on this strong fundamental issue concentrating on other issues. In view of these, God is not to be misunderstood as a promoter of non-vegetarian food. In such special case, God may also follow the forbidden sin in order to mix with the sinners closely before bringing the control. In such case, you should not say that the human incarnation following a sinful tradition is not God based on the sin. Shri Paramahamsa was also reported as the eater of fish. Before the eradication of sin, God in human form has to mix with the sinners closely by following their sinful tradition. Based on this, you should not reject God in human form as a sinner. Shri Shirdi Sai Baba was reported to have prepared the non-vegetarian food. But, His next incarnation, Shri Satya Sai Baba, was totally against to it. You must understand Shirdi Sai Baba in doing such activity, which is only to achieve close mixing with non-vegetarians. Without understanding the background, you should not conclude the actions of God in a drastic way like blaming Krishna as a thief of butter.
ii) These two are special cases in which the will of God has given such power. By the grace of Lord Vishnu, Prahlada attained such power so that when he is delivered from the womb, the external demonic atmosphere does not pollute him in anyway. In the case of Abhimanyu, who is an incarnation of a demon, the entry should be known so that he will enter that mode of war and will be killed since he does not know to come out. Moreover, Saindhava was given a boon by Lord Shiva that he will stop the four pandavas on one day. This boon was fulfilled simultaneously in that context. God’s will is ultimate and omnipotent.
6) Shri Karthik asked:
[i) When a person is smashed in bomb blast, all the attitudes are also burnt and in such case the attitude may be destroyed even without knowledge.
ii) You told that Arjuna was born as a hunter (Kannappa) in the next birth. But, some intermediate births might have taken place between dwapara and kali ages and the hunter need not be next immediate life of Arjuna.
iii) Rajas is said to be bad. But Rajas is needed for a police officer to do his duty effectively. Hence, there can be good Rajas also.]
Swami Replied: i) When the soul leaves the smashed gross body, it carries on the attitudes (samskaras or vasanas) with it (Vayurgandhaan… Gita). All these attitudes are also energetic pulses present in the energetic body along with the energetic (awareness) soul. Energy is not destroyed by energy. There is no trace of matter in the energetic body of a departed soul, which is made of awareness and energy only (Manomayah praanashareera netaa - Veda).
ii) Arjuna was sage Nara, who was a close associate of God in the form sage Narayana. The general rule does not apply to such special cases. Even if you treat Arjuna as an ordinary human being and allow some intermediate births, such births need not be considered since the concept (of not believing human incarnation and believing only idol worship) can be hidden in the sub-conscious state in those births. When Arjuna is born as a hunter, in such birth only, this hidden concept came up and got exhibited. In the context of following the thread of the concept, I can refer the birth of hunter as the next birth, which does not mean the next birth in view of time.
iii) Sattvam, rajas and tamas always co-exist and no soul has any of these qualities in isolated state. We call the soul in the name of the quality due to its predominating percentage only. Rajas controlled by sattvam is effective performance of duty with good goals. If rajas dominates sattvam, the same effective performance of duty of rajas will be towards a bad goal. Ends justify the means. Rajas is said to be bad if it is predominating. The same rajas functioning as sub-ordinate to sattvam is good because the end is good. Similarly, tamas is the determination or rigidity. If the rigidity is towards a good goal, tamas is a sub-ordinate of sattvam. If tamas predominates independently, the ends are bad. Rigidity for a good goal is appreciable. Same rigidity in wrong direction is a sin. Rajas and tamas are bad if they are in predominating state. The same rajas and tamas as sub-ordinates of sattvam are good. The incarnation of Narasimha is the climax of Rajas. But the ultimate end is to destroy the demon.
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