02 Jun 2021
[An online spiritual discussion was conducted on May 30, 2021, in which several devotees participated. Devotees’ questions answered by Swāmi are given below.]
[Śrī Ganesh V. asked: Padanamaskaram Swamiji! As instructed by You in the previous satsanga, I am submitting to You the main points in the recent debate I had with my friend. As mentioned during the last satsanga, that debate turned ugly and he resorted to abusive language. Here is a summary of the debate:
Opponent: I eat beef. Is that anti-national?
Ganesh: How does it matter whether you eat beef or chicken? The point is that you are killing an innocent animal for food. It is understandable if there is no vegetarian food around. But killing an innocent animal for food is a sin, whether it is beef, chicken or a fertilised egg.
Opponent: But eating unfertilised eggs should be fine, right?
Ganesh: Not exactly. But it is a lesser sin.
Opponent: Then consuming milk should be a sin too!
Ganesh: No, because it is possible to hand-milk the cow in which case the cow is not harmed.
Opponent: But the unfertilized eggs laid by hens are a waste, right? So, why can you not eat them?
Ganesh: Yes, but the hens in a poultry farm are forced to lay too many eggs, by giving them unnatural conditions of confinement, drugs, feed and so on, which harms them, in the long run.
Opponent: No it does not. The hens lay so many eggs because they have been bred or genetically modified to produce those many eggs. Besides the same argument of cruelty to egg-laying hens also applies to milk-yielding cows.
Ganesh: Exactly, while laying eggs the hen’s bones have to stretch a lot. Laying too many eggs leads to premature death. It is not immediate death, but a slow death. Drinking the milk of even genetically modified cows and even if they are milked with a machine, does not kill them, even though it might be painful.
Opponent: If you actually cared about animals, you would not consume either chicken or cow products. Did the cow tell you that it does take a strain on their mental health when you milk them constantly? No. The same thing holds for the chicken. Do not make this about animals. It never was about them.
Ganesh: That is what I am trying to tell you. There is a way to milk those cows without hurting them. You can milk them while leaving sufficient milk for the calf. It is possible to have milk-yielding cows without making them mass-produce milk.
Opponent: They already do that. Do you know why? Because cows produce too much milk to begin with. Yes, it puts them in more danger when you do not milk them. Sure, thus you have the argument that you should milk them to help them. But that same logic works with hens too. Also, you talk of harm and pain only in the short term. The thing is, we humans have damaged their genes to the point that any harm that might happen to them would be due to genetic reasons. If you actually cared about cows or animals in general, you would stop the process of this genetic damage that is only accelerating. You can do so by not demanding any animal based-products and switching to a vegan diet. I thus repeat, unless you do that, you do not care enough about cows.
Ganesh: Cows do not have to be genetically modified and can be milked without using machines. Also, the calves can be given sufficient amounts of milk for their growth.
After that he began to abuse a lot. I request Your guidance about how to present the points in favour of vegetarianism. At Your divine feet. Ganesh V.]
Swami Replied:- The opponent is arguing about the harm done to a cow during the process of milking. You are arguing about the harm done to hen in generating an unfertilised egg. Both these topics are out of the main line, which is that, whether non-vegetarian food is sinful or not. Both of you missed the main track and argued on a very minor track. The unfertilised egg will not generate any living being. The egg before fertilisation also was generated from the flesh of hen only. Similarly, the milk of the cow was also generated from the flesh of cow only. There is very minute marginal difference between these two. Such very minute marginal difference is that the unfertilised egg has the probability of fertilisation and generation of a living being. The milk has no such probability. The milking of cow after feeding its calf is justified because if the milk is not taken out, that will lead to pain and sickness also. Of course, whether the calf is completely satisfied with the milk or not is also an intermediate question in the sin. However, that point can be largely answered by saying that the calf eats tender grass also to pacify its hunger completely. The calf also should develop the habit of eating grass. Of course, the large part of its hunger must be satisfied by the milk of its mother in the early time of delivery. Taking all these factors into consideration, we can conclude that the normal process of milking cow is a very negligible sin. Even eating an unfertilised egg must be a negligible sin, but not very negligible sin. Hence, both of you fought on negligible and very negligible sins. You have not fought on tremendous sin and no sin. The harm of health of both hen and cow can be scientifically verified since such verification can give you the correct picture. I do not understand why your opponent became wild because there is no trace of possibility for even a trace of anger at the point where you stopped your discussions.
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