04 Jan 2018
[Opponent:- The awareness creating the imaginary world is Eshwara. The awareness participating in the imaginary world is incarnation. The awareness in the awaken state is unimaginable God with worldly activity and the same without worldly activity is awareness in meditation state. The absence of awareness in deep sleep state is atheism, which is out of your context. The awareness in the imaginary world like dream state is the controlled ordinary soul. Hence, awareness being God and soul, God is the soul only.
Theorist:- There are seven states for any soul or awareness:-
1) Awaken state in which awareness exists while the nervous system and brain are functioning. ‘I’ is an idea by which the soul is linked to world, which (world) is a total composite of matter, energy and awareness. In this state, the ‘I’ is related to self-awareness, own body and external world and the awareness in this state is called as general consciousness related to this birth in the present external world. This first state ‘I’ is compared to the unimaginable God without any external real world since this external real world is only His imaginary world.
2) Dream state in which the awareness exists while nervous system and brain function. The ‘I’ in this state is also an idea only generated by the awareness in dream. Here, awareness and ‘I’ are linked to a different world of ideas generated by the dream. Dream is the source of the ‘I’ here, linked to a separate world of thoughts and these thoughts are generated as per the stored strong thoughts collected from previous births (sub-conscious state) along with some strong thoughts collected from this birth also.
3) Deep sleep state in which the awareness totally disappears since the nervous system and the brain take rest without functioning. In this state, neither ‘I’ exists nor any other thought exists.
4) Meditation state in which pure awareness, which has the self or awareness itself as an object. The ‘I’ exists in very weak state and other thoughts do not exist at all. The awareness without any idea or thought exists since brain and the nervous system are functioning.
5) Imagination state, which is in awaken state only maintaining the ‘I’ of awaken state only, but delinked from the external world due to closure of eyes. This imagination state ‘I’ exists outside the imaginary world.
6) Imagination state in which the imagination state ‘I’ enters the imaginary world and identifies with an imaginary form and hence, here the imagination state ‘I’ outside the imaginary world enters and participates in the imaginary world by identifying with the ‘I’ acting as an imaginary form. If this imaginary form on this earth is a container made of matter and energy for the awareness, it is human incarnation.
7) The same above state in the upper worlds having awareness in the container of energy only, it is called as energetic incarnation.
With this background, we must understand certain critical points:
1) The ‘I’ in the awaken state, meditation state and imagination state is one only. The ‘I’ in the dream state is totally different, which is an idea generated by the awareness of dream, which is linked with sub-conscious state only and in no way linked to the state of general consciousness and its ‘I’. The ‘I’ of general consciousness and general consciousness remain inactive in dream state.
2) The ‘I’ of dream state is exclusive for that state only since it is not linked to this body existing in the awaken state. This ‘I’ indicates only a body (only a thought) created by the dream.
3) The ‘I’ in imagination state refers to the ‘I’ of awaken state, which identifies with the ‘I’ in imagination state. This is the difference between imagination state and dream state. The dream state ‘I’ is delinked with awaken state ‘I’, whereas the imagination state ‘I’ existing in the imagination is linked with the awaken state ‘I’.
4) In the case of soul or upamaana, the external body exists and the awaken state ‘I’ is linked to the external body. In the case of God or upameya, the external body does not exist and the awaken state ‘I’ is linked to unimaginable awareness without space. This is the version of Shankara. According to Ramanuja and Madhva, the external energetic body exists for the awaken state ‘I’ with already created space or subtle energy.
Based on these points, which are the points of the comparison (upamaana or soul), we can derive the points of actual item that is compared (upameya or God) in the simile (upamaana). The unimaginable God before creating this world can be compared to the awaken state ‘I’ before creating imaginary world (the external equally real world in the case of soul or upamaana should be assumed as absent since in the case of God or Upameya, there is no external world with equal reality). The imaginary state ‘I’ linked with awaken state ‘I’ (through perfect merge) can be compared to Eshwara with whom the unimaginable God merged perfectly. In the imagination state, the imagination state ‘I’ participating in the imaginary world (which is already linked and merged with awaken state ‘I’) can be compared to the human incarnation or energetic incarnation. Hence, the awaken state ‘I’ (unimaginable God), the imagination state ‘I’ (Eshwara) and imagination state ‘I’ participating in the imaginary world (human incarnation and energetic incarnation) are linked with each other and perfectly merged with each other also. The unimaginable God (related to awaken state ‘I’ only without any link to imaginary world with respect to Eshwara or the same imaginary world becoming dream world with respect to soul), Eshwara (the imagination state ‘I’ creating, maintaining and dissolving the imaginary world standing outside the imaginary world in the space since space was already created even before the creation of first energetic body), human incarnation (the imagination ‘I’ entering into imaginary world through materialized body) and energetic incarnation (the imagination ‘I’ entering into imaginary world through energetic body) are interlinked with each other becoming one only through perfect merge. The awaken state ‘I’ refers to unimaginable God with the worldly activity (Saguna Brahma) whereas the meditation state ‘I’ refers to unimaginable God without the worldly activity (Nirguna Brahma). The four states (awaken state ‘I’ and meditation state ‘I’ representing unimaginable God with and without worldly activity and the imagination state ‘I’ as Eshwara standing outside the imaginary world and the imagination state ‘I’ participating in the imaginary world as human incarnation and energetic incarnation) are explained. The deep sleep state represents the state of atheists in which the above said ‘I’ in four modes (unimaginable God with worldly activity, unimaginable God without worldly activity, Eshwara standing outside the world and Eshwara as human and energetic incarnations participating in the world) is totally absent and only the external physical body exists and this state is out of our discussion. Now, the main point is that whether the dream state ‘I’ is linked with the above ‘I’ stated in four modes or not. In the comparison or upamaana, the dream state ‘I’ is linked to the ‘I’ in four modes in the sense that everywhere ‘I’ is generated by the same awareness. This point can’t be taken as comparable point of the actual concept or upameya or God. The reason is that the comparison (upamaana) need not have all points to be common with the compared item (upameya). The awareness in the comparison is nervous energy, which is defined by space (since energy requires space for existence and propagation) whereas the unimaginable God (compared item) is beyond space being the generator of space. The dream state ‘I’ totally differs from the ‘I’ of four modes (awaken state, meditation state, outside the imaginary world and inside the imaginary world) as explained in the above critical points. If you take comparison here, it becomes a topic of comparison between God and soul, which is impossible since God is beyond space and soul is defined by space. When even the comparison is absent, you can’t say that God and soul are one and the same. The dream (for the soul) like imaginary world (for Eshwara) is always under the control of God (Vashikrutamaayah Eshwarah). The imaginary world (for Eshwara) like dream world (for soul) always controls the soul (Maayaavashikrutrah Jivah). Even in the imaginary world, all other living forms are controlled by the imaginary world as per will of imagination state ‘I’ (Eshwara or incarnation). God is totally different from the world (dream or imaginary world). Soul is a part of the world (dream or imaginary world) and hence, is always controlled by the world due to quantitative difference even though qualitative similarity exists. Certain concepts of the soul can be compared to certain concepts of unimaginable God. But, soul is not God because the generator of the imaginable soul is unimaginable God. We call unimaginable God as unimaginable awareness, by which one should not mistake that God is awareness, which is unimaginable. If you say that God is awareness, God becomes imaginable since awareness is imaginable item. Hence, unimaginable awareness means that the process of knowing of the unimaginable God by His unimaginable power without being awareness. Hence, you can never compare the ‘I’, which is a thought of awareness only to the unimaginable God. The imaginable ‘I’ (awareness) can never touch the unimaginable God, who is the creator of that ‘I’.]
[Opponent:- Practical philosophy is always better than mere spiritual knowledge. It is wastage of time to concentrate so much on spiritual knowledge without practice. Hence, without much concentration on knowledge, practice shall be done as early as possible since human life is very short.
Theorist:- There are four steps (authorities) of spiritual effort:- 1) Shruti or Veda containing the concepts given by God through ancient sages. 2) Smruti or Puraanas written by Veda Vyaasa giving practical proof of the application of the Vedic concepts in ancient generations. This also gives the explanation of the concepts given by God as seen in the Gita. 3) Yukti or logical analysis needed everywhere in examining the correct interpretations of Shruti and Smruti and also in examining the experience of human beings in the world to be logically justified or not. 4) Anubhava or experience of other human beings. Some accept only when they get self-experience and such people belong to the lowest category. A better category than these accepts while observing the experience of others. A better category than these accepts while hearing the experience of ancient people in Puraanas as told by sage Vyaasa, who can be believed being a great sage. A better category than these or best category is that, which accepts the concepts given by God through very pious sages. On one side, you have Shruti and Smruti as theory heard and on the other side, you have the observation of practical experience of your contemporary co-human beings as Anubhava. In between these two, the theory heard (Shruti and Smruti) and the practical experience of co-human beings (and self also), lies the logical analysis to be always done on both sides before accepting the true concept. The decisions arrived from both sides through logical analysis only constitute the spiritual knowledge. The miracles heard come on the side of theory and the miracles observed come on the side of practical experience (of others or of self) helping the fundamental concept of unimaginable God.
People misunderstand that mere hearing Shruti, Smruti and experiences of the co-human beings is the spiritual knowledge. This is not correct because after hearing from both sides, you must analyze perfectly so that there is no false reporting or misinterpretation of something else. Such knowledge simply heard from books and people is not the true knowledge. Even in the case of self-experience, you may not find out the truth without perfect logical analysis. After arriving at such true decisions through perfect logical analysis only, you must start practicing the concepts. If you take the knowledge based on mere hearing without analysis, you may go in wrong direction. What is the use of your strong inspiration (bhakti yoga) to implement a concept and what is the use of your perfect sincerity in implementation (karma yoga) if the concept is not correct since it is not decided by passing it through sharp analysis, which alone is the foundation (jnaana yoga). If you are running in wrong direction due to misunderstood and misinterpreted knowledge, both your force of inspiration and practical effort become useless. If the knowledge is correct, you will go in right direction and you will reach the goal even with weak inspiration and slow implementation (walking). If the knowledge is wrong, you are going in the opposite direction, in which case, your forcible implementation (running) and excellent inspiration behind it become not only waste, but also harmful since you are going more far and far from the right goal. Hence, for the sake of right direction, the spiritual knowledge from the human incarnation (Satguru) is essential, which also must be accepted by you after analysis only. Krishna said Arjuna to accept the Gita only after analysis (vimrushyaitadasheshena…). If the preacher is preaching wrong knowledge, he will ask you to accept it without any further analysis because he fears that analysis may prove his knowledge to be wrong. Krishna is damn sure of correctness of His preaching in the Gita and hence, asked Arjuna to accept it after analysis only. Today, there is no dearth for devotion and sacrifice of work and fruit of work. The lacking side is only the fundamental foundation, which is the correct spiritual knowledge inviting analysis without any fear. Due to absence of correct direction, which is given by correct analysis only, the inspiration and practical effort are becoming waste. Hence, correct spiritual knowledge preceding practice is essential than practice without preceding correct knowledge. The correct spiritual knowledge without subsequent practice is like lame with eyes. The practice of wrong knowledge is like a person with legs and without eyes. Both are essential like a person walking with legs after seeing the path with eyes. Hence, the first step is to gain correct spiritual knowledge and not hasty practice of wrong knowledge with high emotion without doing analysis to find out correct direction through true knowledge. Practice certainly gives the fruit like the plant. The prior inspiration is like the manure and the prior correct spiritual knowledge is like water. The plant even with given sufficient manure dies without the fundamental supply of water. Sages have taken millions of births for finding true knowledge and confirmed human incarnation, Lord Rama as the relevant God, After that, they have taken only one birth (as Gopikas) for implementing that knowledge in practice.]
[i) Opponent (OP): We agree that there is unimaginable awareness, which means undetectable awareness called as God or Brahman.
Theorist (TH): Unimaginable awareness is totally different from undetectable awareness. The latter means awareness (God), which is undetectable. The former mean awareness (process of knowing) of undetectable or unimaginable God. We mean that God is not awareness at all. We mean awareness as a process of knowing and not the material of knower. The knower is unimaginable, not awareness, but knows due to His unimaginable power or nature. The word ‘undetectable’ should be also clear in its meaning that it is undetectable forever. It should not mean that it is undetectable today (like certain rays with higher frequencies existing above the presently detected frequency rays in the electromagnetic spectrum), but, may be detected tomorrow as science grows! Hence, the Veda says that you should know that God is not known (avijnaatam vijaanataam) and that you should forget that God becomes known (vijnaatamavijaanataam)!
ii) OP: ‘I’ is to be linked to this ultimate undetectable awareness or the basis (aadhaara) through analysis of the five sheaths (koshas) of any human being.
TH: When the awareness is undetectable, how can you link ‘I’, which is a mode (thought) of imaginable awareness (or nervous energy generated by the materialized nervous system) to undetectable awareness? You have clearly agreed that undetectable awareness is not the awareness generated by the nervous system (But, this is not the opinion of other Advaitins, who feel that God is detectable awareness only being experienced by every soul in the daily life. My theory contradicts such Advaitins by saying that Shankara told so for a special purpose of converting atheists into theists.). You also have to agree that since awareness or nervous energy generated by nervous system is knowable or detectable. If you say that you are undetectable (unimaginable) awareness, it means that you are saying that you are undetectable (unimaginable) item. It means that you are an item, which is undetectable or unimaginable for you! Such statement can come only from a mad person. How can you claim that you are ultimately an item, which is not detectable by you or anybody? You are thinking that God (undetectable awareness) is the basis of this universe like a table on which five sheaths are present one above the other. Here, both the table and sheaths are imaginable and space-defined objects. The undetectable (unimaginable) awareness is not defined by space and hence, it is not detected. Here, base means that by the will of which, the imaginary world exists. The example for God and world given by Shankara is a magician creating an illusory city (maayaagandharva nagaram) and a sage creating a real city (maayaaviva...mahaayogiva). In such created city, the magician or sage is not standing as the base for that city like a table for sheaths. He is standing aloof from that city. Yet, he can be told as the basis of that city since his existence is the basis for the existence of that city. Hence, if you remove the items of that city one after the other proceeding in downward direction, you will not find the magician or the sage standing as the ultimate basis of that city. Similarly, God is not pervading all over the world like perfume or energy since the magician or the sage is neither standing as base like table nor pervading all over the world. The magician or sage is not pervading all over that created city. Just like the magician or the sage is aloof from the city, God is beyond the world creating the world just by will and acting as its indirect basis (not as a table for the sheaths). In such case, by the analysis of the five sheaths, you cannot touch God or ultimate basis (standing beyond the world) since God is undetectable or unimaginable.
iii) OP: God is said to be with us (Aparokshaat Brahma) to be experienced and the analysis of five sheaths is also from Veda.
TH: God is certainly beyond this world and is undetectable or unimaginable. The reason for this is that the Veda says that God is the generator of space. Space cannot exist in its generator before its generation. If it exists, generation of space becomes false. When space does not exist in God, God is not having any volume (Parimaana, which is the characteristic of space). Any item having no volume can never be detected by even the topmost intelligence and hence, God is unimaginable. God is omnipotent and due to this, anything is possible for God. Due to omnipotence only, God is omniscient (knowing every bit of the world) without becoming omnipresent (like space in the world). Any imaginable item can become omniscient provided it is omnipresent. The unimaginable God is omniscient without becoming omnipresent in the world due to His omnipotence. If you say that God is omniscient since He is omnipresent, He is defined by space logic. The greatness of God reaches climax only when you say that God is omniscient even though not omnipresent. Climax of greatness is the essence of the word ‘Brahman’ or the greatest. Due to absence of omnipresence of God, no item of the world is God (neti neti - Veda) and no item of world contains God. Since God is not space-defined imaginable item like a table or ground, God is also not the direct basis of the world. The world is created and maintained by God just by His will and therefore, God is not modified by creation and also is not maintaining the world by becoming the direct basis like space-defined table. The result is that you can neither find God in any imaginable item nor God is any imaginable item of the world. You can’t find God as the direct basis of the world so that you can find out Him by downward digging (analysis) taking an ordinary soul to be dug. Several Vedic statements and the Gita say that God is totally unimaginable.
Like this, even though God is completely beyond the world (space), as the Veda says, God enters the world as incarnation for participating in the world-drama for getting more entertainment than being mere spectator. Another important need is propagation of true spiritual knowledge in world. When God enters a human being (five sheaths) to become human incarnation, God pervades all over the human being so that every sheath (kosha) becomes God only. The unimaginable God beyond the world can be only inferred whereas God as human incarnation can be even visualized being in our presence and this is the meaning of the Vedic statement that God is with us. In the analysis of five sheaths, every sheath is found to be God (Annam Brahmeti vyajanaat… etc.) and nowhere no sheath is denied to be God. Even the gross body (Annamaya Kosha) of human incarnation is becoming the unimaginable God (Brahman) and hence, the body of Krishna could lift the hill and the body of Shankara could withstand the swallowed molten lead. In the case of such incarnation, there may be a probability of God pervading the soul only (probability depends on the requirement of the context), you can deny the five sheaths and find God as the soul or pure awareness called as Atman. God can be unimaginable standing as inseparable direct basis of such soul also as per the concept of Ramanuja, which is monism by inseparable dualism. As per Madhva, pure dualism is also possible when unimaginable God exists in Rama blessing the servant Hanuman from outside. All these three relationships are possible only in the case of specific souls called as devotees. In the case of ordinary soul, there is no such relationship and hence, the analysis of five sheaths will lead you into infinite space only and God will not be touched (standing beyond the world) by such analysis. This means that by mere analysis of an ordinary soul, you will get nothing unless the grace of unimaginable God exists due to your devotion and God makes a bond with you to become detectable by inference (which means that one can detect the existence of God and not the nature of God).
iv) OP: It is hair split to say whether knowledge is inherent characteristic or inseparable associated characteristic of God since result is the same.
TH: This is again another confusion of the concepts. We are not speaking about unimaginable God when we say that knowledge is inseparable associated characteristic. When unimaginable God becomes human incarnation for the propagation of spiritual knowledge, we say that the unimaginable God is always associated with awareness (in advanced stage called as Prajnaanam) while becoming the human incarnation (manusheem tanumashritam - Gita). We are not saying that the unimaginable God beyond the world is having knowledge as inherent or associated characteristic. The unimaginable God beyond the world is not having imaginable awareness either as inherent or as associated characteristic. When the unimaginable God enters the world as human incarnation, then only, God is associated with the human awareness (knowledge) so that we have to speak that human awareness as clear associated-inseparable characteristic of unimaginable God while in the state of human incarnation. If you say that such associated human awareness as inherent characteristic, it means that the unimaginable God is having imaginable awareness as inherent characteristic only and this spoils the whole concept to think that unimaginable God is imaginable awareness.
v) OP: You say that this world (energy) is greatest among the items of the world and hence is called as Brahman because a greatest item in any category can be called as Brahman. At the same time, You give another interpretation that this world is under the control of God (Brahman) by bringing Tadadhina Prathamaa (the controlled property can be represented by the name of the controller) as suggested by Ramanuja. Which interpretation is correct for the Vedic statement that ‘all this world is Brahman’.
TH: Both are correct since both do not contradict each other. Energy is greatest among all the items of the world. Since God is the creator of this energy, He is greater than energy and hence, greatest ultimately. Both meanings can co-exist without any mutual contradiction. The word ‘Brahman’ is used to mean several items, which are greatest in their categories like food, mind, intellect, bliss, Veda, etc. Each is greatest in its category and hence, all these greatest items do not contradict with each other. Soul is the greatest among various forms of energy and hence is called as Brahman (Jivo Brahmaiva). Such interpretation can answer the critics of Shankara (who blame Shankara for having told that soul is God). Soul is imaginable awareness standing as greatest among all the detectable or imaginable forms of energy. Hence, you can’t say that soul is undetectable or unimaginable. To such critics, we can answer that Shankara told that the soul (jiva) is greatest (Brahman) among the various forms of energy. Of course, He had to tell that soul is God to atheists to drag them into theism. Since He dragged atheists into theism, the theism got members in it and because of such theistic members only Ramanuja and Madhva could flourish with their philosophies.
Soul is said to be the greatest created item among all the created items of the world. Hence, it is called as Paraprakruti, which means the greatest item in prakruti or world. Soul is not only the greatest item but also is one of the imaginable worldly item. God is greater than soul and hence, becomes the greatest of all the worldly items including the soul. You need not doubt that both God and soul become the greatest of all the worldly items. There is difference between God and soul. Soul is imaginable worldly item existing in the imaginable domain. God is unimaginable and beyond the worldly items unlike the soul. Hence, God i) being greatest item and ii) being beyond the world is called as Parabrahman, which means greatest (Brahman) and also beyond the world (Para). Hence, there is no clash between God and soul that both are greatest items. The unimaginable God beyond world is called as Parabrahman by Shankara to be indicated by silence only without any word indicating that God is totally unimaginable (Maunavyaakhyaa prakatita Parabrahma… Shankara).
vi) OP: In the deep sleep, in the human body, God exists as the witness so that when the human being awakens from the deep sleep, all the past life is continued by the link standing in the deep sleep as witness. Otherwise, after awakening, the soul should have been with fresh mind without any past memories.
TH: This point of the ancient scholars reflects lack of the scientific knowledge of the human brain, which is a system of several microprocessors working simultaneously. In the computer, the information exists in the form of pulses and whenever current enters the computer, the information is displayed. This point of storing the information in brain was also recognized by a school of logic called as Sphota Siddhanta (sphota means pulse). The non-acceptance of this school of logic due to ego-based rigidity led the scholars to end with this conclusion that God is acting as a link between deep sleep and awaken state. God is certainly the witness of every bit of this world in all the three stages (awaken, dream and deep sleep). God has created this mechanism of link within the soul, which works automatically in a routine way. This is a better system of administration of God than thinking that God Himself will be doing such mechanism as an employed operator!
vii) OP: God is infinite and hence is blissful. God is said to be true and infinite knowledge by Veda. This itself means that God is awareness.
TH: If God is blissful being infinite, why He got bored (worried) before creation? Limited and unlimited are the concepts of space and hence, God is beyond these two concepts to be concluded as unimaginable. In the Vedic statement, you should take implied meaning (vyanjana or lakshana of lakshyaartha) and not direct meaning (abhidhaa of vaachyaartha). While saying that the village is in Ganges (Gangaayaam ghoshah), you should take the implied meaning as that the village is very near to Ganges. If you take God as knowledge, God becomes imaginable awareness and can’t be unimaginable to prove that He is beyond space. When it is said that power has no age (tejassaam hi na vayah), it means by implied meaning that the possessor of power has no value of age. Similarly, the human incarnation like powerful Shankara has no consideration of age when He wrote commentaries by sixteen years age. The same Shankara is possessor of true and infinite knowledge or called as personified knowledge. Hence, this (Prajnaanam Brahma) refers to the true knowledge of human incarnation (Satguru).
viii) OP: Miracles are not significant in philosophy since these are obtained by anybody by the grace of God and hence, Shankara drinking the molten lead and declaring that He is different from ordinary souls is overlooked before His philosophy that soul is God.
TH: The main characteristic of unimaginable God is a miracle, which is the unimaginable event. Since the miracle is unimaginable, you can’t say that you can catch God by such characteristic since miracle itself is unimaginable and indicates unimaginable nature of God only. Such miracles are expressed through human incarnations and true devotees. Unimaginable God exhibits such miracles through demons also since He is forced by the devotion of such demons. In the demons, the miracles look with very bad nature due to the nature of demons and because of this reason, you need not neglect miracles of unimaginable God expressed through human incarnations and devotees. The water (miracle) falling from cloud (unimaginable God) is pure. When it falls in the pearl shell (devotees), it becomes pure pearl. When it falls in mud (demons), it becomes dirty water. The demon also obtained miraculous power from unimaginable God through devotion based on dualism. The false Advaitin feeling himself as God already doesn’t get such power from God since he neglects devotion and sacrifice due to disbelief in dualism. He is worse than a demon in this line. Of course, if the monism is used in the proper way as expected by Shankara, it is good even though miracles are absent. The expected outcome of monism is that the soul will behave with all good qualities like God supporting justice and avoiding sins. If this is not achieved and moreover if negative side is achieved so that sins can be done because the world is not true, such theoretical monism is wrong. The false Advaitin thinks himself as God and becomes attributeless without doing good deeds and without devotion due to denial of dualism. In view of such unexpected negative results only, Shankara is born as Ramanuja and Madhva and removed such negative side developments (side reactions). Of course, the followers of Ramanuja and Madhva also developed some negative reactions like hatred to Shiva, who is Narayana Himself. Always, the original divine preachers are diamonds and their followers (mostly) are charcoals!
The false Advaitin feels that he is already God, but, he is unable to perform any miracle since he is neither God nor even blessed by God! He is a very clever person like a defeated person in boxing, fallen on the ground, keeps his hand above the winner to declare that he won! Miracle is the real characteristic of unimaginable God by which only you know that God is unimaginable being beyond space. Krishna showed all the unlimited universe in His very little mouth and this proves that He is beyond the concept of space-volume! Thus, miracles are treasures of spiritual knowledge while performed by Satguru. Unable to show miracles, the false Advaitin covers that defect (of not achieving practical monism with God) by neglecting the miracles as some cheap powers, which are to be neglected in the theoretical divine level. He will go to such extent in proving that the miracles are also lies because the entire creation itself is not true!
ix) OP: Dualism is most prominent indicating the general nature of all ordinary souls called as masses. Monism belongs to a few realized souls only.
TH: In Kruta Yuga, most of the people followed justice and only a few demons followed injustice. Does this mean, as per your theory, that people following justice were just ignorant masses and the few demons following injustice were wise classes? You shall decide the value of the concept through discussion of the related points and not based on elections! Our theory leads a soul from false monism (soul thinking that he is already God and only realization of self is the path to remove the ignorance that he is not God) to real dualism (in which the soul shall submit to God like a servant with service and sacrifice to remove the ignorance that he is already God) to get the fruit of true monism (in which God is pleased to make the soul as human incarnation in which God and soul become one) or fruit of super dualism (in which God becomes the servant of the devoted soul).
x) OP: The four Vedic statements (Mahaavakyaas) stress on the absolute existence of God by which the identification of soul with God can be achieved.
TH: The absolute existence (Paramaartha Sattaa) of God gives only two points: a) Only the existence of God can be known but not His nature in any way (Astityeva – Veda) and b) the existence of the world is completely based on the existence of God. These two points cannot help you to identify the God or to achieve oneness between God and soul. The four Mahaavakyaas can be interpreted in three ways: i) In the case of human incarnation, first person, second person and third person mean the God in human form. The fourth statement means that the human incarnation of God is the possessor of the special excellent knowledge. ii) In the case of a devotee of God, the first three statements indicate very early fruit of becoming human incarnation in first, second and third persons. iii) In the case of ordinary soul, the human incarnation and ordinary soul can’t be differentiated in any way due to invisible-unimaginable God. Due to invisible current, the electrified and non-electrified wires look like same. The first three statements indicate this comparison between God in human form and ordinary human being using metaphor-figure of speech in first, second and third persons.
xi) OP: Shri Ramana Maharshi said that the ‘I’ is related to God.
TH: The essence of the philosophy of Ramana Maharshi is to search the source (cause) of ‘I’, which is awareness (Purusha. Purusha means awareness lying or pervading in the body. Puri shete iti purushah.). If you go back in the chain of creation from ‘I’ to awareness to food to plants to earth to water to fire to air to space and finally to unimaginable God. Hence, the ultimate source of ‘I’ is the unimaginable God only about whom His existence alone can be known. ‘I’ is a thought made of awareness like golden jewel is made of gold. The awareness came from food as per the Veda. In this chain of causes-effects, if you go back, you can go up to space. You can relate this ‘I’ to the space in the ultimate step. But, the cause of space is unimaginable God and you can’t relate unimaginable God to ‘I’ because the generation of space from unimaginable God is unimaginable. Hence, you can make ‘I’ touch up to space but, you can’t make ‘I’ to touch unimaginable God. The result is that you can say that you are the space in the ultimate step. But, you can never say that you are the unimaginable God since you can’t cross the space and its link to God.
The human incarnation like Krishna said that He is God. Krishna became God since God crossed the link (generation link between God and space) and descended in to space, passed through all the chain of creation and became the awareness. This is will of God by which God could become even the gross body (Annamaya Kosha) of Krishna. If the human being ascends through this chain, he has to stop at space only since he can’t cross the unimaginable link between God and space. The human incarnation is called as Avataara, which means descended God and it is not called as ascended human being because God can come down crossing the unimaginable link, but, human being can’t ascend to the state of unimaginable God crossing the unimaginable link. In the human body itself, the entire chain starting from awareness (Purusha) up to space exists for the soul to reach up to space. Pindaanda (human body) is a mini Brahmaanda (world).
xii) OP: There is only one ‘I’ in the three states (awaken, dream and deep sleep).
TH: Whether the same ‘I’ exists in three states or not, it is immaterial for us since you are revolving only in the imaginable domain without crossing the unimaginable link between space and unimaginable God. This subject belongs to the field of science (analysis of imaginable domain) only, as per which the ‘I’ creating imaginary world in awaken state is totally different from the ‘I’ present in the dream state. Even though both are made of the same awareness, the ‘I’ (awareness of gross body) creating the imaginary world controls the imaginary world whereas the ‘I’ (lack of awareness of gross body) in the dream state is controlled by imaginary world acting like dream for it. You can bring the dream state in to your imaginary world also like this:- you are creating your imaginary world. In that imaginary world, you have created some person X, who is controlled by your imaginary world like a person created in the dream is controlled by that dream. You have to understand imaginary world with reference to you and the same imaginary world with respect to some person X created in that imaginary world by you. Now, your imaginary world is called as imaginary world with respect to you and the same imaginary world can be called as dream world with respect to X. You (creating your imaginary world) can be compared to the unimaginable God creating this world and X (soul or person created in your imaginary world) is the soul created in this world. Unfortunately, in the simile, yourself and X are made of the same awareness. But, in the concept, unimaginable God is unimaginable being beyond the imaginable domain and can’t be imaginable awareness like you. This is the basic difference between you in the simile and unimaginable God in the concept. The soul in the concept and in the simile is one and the same, which is imaginable awareness. Hence, the concept is not at all affected by any change in the simile, even if the change is assumed in the future research of neurology. As such, based on the present scientific logic, the ‘I’ creating the imaginary world is different from the ‘I’ caught in the dream. Awaken state is one file and dream state is another file in the computer like human being. The second file can be brought in to the first file and hence, dream is remembered in the awaken state. In the deep sleep, there is neither awareness nor display of any file. On entering in to awaken state from deep sleep, the rest of the deep sleep is immediately experienced as happiness and this happiness was not experienced in the deep sleep and it is only experienced in the awaken state. The statement ‘I slept with happiness’ is only an inference of the deep sleep and not perception during deep sleep. Even if you establish in future with the help of more developed science that ‘I’ existed in deep sleep, there is no use. The reason is that ‘I’ in any state being in the imaginable domain itself can’t be unimaginable God and also, can’t become unimaginable God due to inability to cross the space. But, this imaginable ‘I’ can become unimaginable God if God wishes so (by becoming human incarnation in which God comes down to the state of human soul).]
[Opponent: The idea that world is under the control of God as the meaning of Vedic statement that world is God through the concept of Tadadhina Prathamaa is very awkward. There is nothing that Datta Swami found out in His theory. He is denying some points of monism as if they are truly said by Shankara! In fact, He created certain false points as if told by monism and condemned them!
Theorist: As soon as the human being is born, till death, the two nasal openings always hiss air by expulsion after inhaling it and these two nose-holes are nothing but the mouths of the two venomous serpents called as ego and jealousy. People say that control of respiration is yoga and now in view of this simile, that is the greatest spiritual effort to control ego and jealousy towards co-human forms. This is the reason that why almost every human being is missing the human incarnation in his life. Due to this repulsion between common media, the human being after death takes energetic body to go to the upper worlds and does not recognize God in energetic form. By this, the soul loses God everywhere and every time!
The human being does not fear even to scold divine personalities like Krishna, Shankara, Ramanuja, Madhva, Buddha, Mahavir, Jesus, Mohammed etc., and not to speak of scolding a co-human being. An ignorant Jain said that Krishna was responsible for the mighty war and hence went to hell! By saying so, that fellow went to hell! A great scholar of Vishishtadvaita scolded Shankara as incarnation of demon preaching monism of God and ordinary soul! By this, he went to special hell headed by Kaalabhairava! A great scholar of Advaita (wrote hundred books) scolded Ramanuja with bad words (in his book called ‘Shaankaraashaankara bhaashya vimarshah’) and died by the bite of a serpent while 38 years old! He did not recognize that Ramanuja is incarnation of thousand-headed Lord of Serpents (Adishesha)! Ignorant priests crucified Jesus due to ego and jealousy and went to hell with liquid fire! You are scolding the concept told by Ramanuja as awkward, thinking that it is told by a human being called as Datta Swami! All this spiritual knowledge is spoken by God Datta through the throat of Datta Swami!
One must control ego and jealousy while attacking divine personalities like Krishna, Shankara etc. You need not use bad words towards Satguru and towards the concept of Satguru presented. After all, we are petty human beings with a tiny head like pinhead whereas Ramanuja is with thousand divine heads! I’m not threatening anybody to stop the criticism of the concept told even by God. God Krishna asked Arjuna to analyse whatever was told by Him (vimrushyaitat…). When bad words are used in the analysis or criticism, that shows that the analysis is not efficient by itself and hence, bad words are used to compensate the deficiency! Your point must prove that the concept of opponent is awkward and the opponent himself should feel that his concept is awkward. You need not utter that word unnecessarily. If you utter that word, a doubt will come that the concept might not be really awkward!
When Arjuna got a doubt in the preaching of Krishna, he politely expressed the doubt everywhere. He fell on the feet of Krishna and told that he will ask doubts (prucchaami tvaam…). Such a question asked to clear the genuine doubt was certified as ‘pariprashna’ by Sai Baba. You shall not hurt anybody or any concept of anybody by using cheap words indicating your egoistic victory on the opponent, which will lower the value of your argument. Your polite presentation of the argument brings more force and value to you. Because of this worst mentality of ego and jealousy turning into the concept of self-victory and opponent-defeat, splits in religions and philosophies arose disturbing the peace of humanity by which God becomes furious. Discussion is only investigation of truth and not a fight resulting in defeat or victory. In discussion, whoever wins is lost because he gained nothing since his concept is already correct! The defeated person is benefited so that he corrects his wrong concept and gets benefit!
If you get operated from the two cataracts of your ego and jealousy, you will find several new concepts as shining diamonds in this spiritual knowledge of God Datta. Datta Swami stands for His throat only as a mike for the speaker, God Datta. Bringing unification of philosophies and religions through the concept of unimaginable God is a wonderful discovery blessed by God Datta for the sake of welfare of humanity through the tongue of Datta Swami!
In fact, you have created false statements, which are not the actual concepts of Shankara. For example: you have stated that the imaginable awareness is not God, but, Shankara told that the imaginable awareness experienced by us is God (Jeevo Brahmaiva). You have also told that unimaginable awareness is God. But, Shankara told that the imaginable awareness being experienced by us continuously is God (of course, He told like this for the sake of conversion of atheists in to theists). We have not told anything not told by Shankara. We have only explained the circumstances in which Shankara has to tell so in spite its opposite is in the heart of Shankara.
All the divine preachers are incarnations of the same God. Then, why differences appear in their preachings? The differences are due to the differences in the receivers (disciples) existing in their times. If simply, the same truth is announced in all the times to receivers of different mentalities, such preachings are not heard by the disciples like the deaf not hearing the conch shells blown! The disciples will listen only if the preachings are liked by their defective psychologies. Without listening the concepts, realization can’t come like without eating, digestion can’t take place! A scholar simply bothers about preaching the truth only, whatever may be the result. A preacher (Guru) twists the concept for the sake of listening and subsequent assimilation in the disciples. Twist is temporary and the string twisted comes back to the original state in no time. Gradually, the truth comes back to its original stage as the receiver climbs upper step. Unless these twists made due to different psychologies of receivers are explained in view of the times in which divine preachers appeared, the twists will continue as permanent deformations of the truth and this leads anybody not to believe that all these divine personalities are incarnations of same God. The Veda says that the same truth is spoken in several ways (twists) by preachers (ekam sat vipraa bahudaa vadanti). The reasons and circumstances for such variation in the speeches of the preachers are explained by God Datta to bring unification in the divine preachers resulting in the unification of all concepts of spiritual knowledge for the sake of welfare of entire humanity (Sutras 32 and 33 are in the context of the criticism of Shri Datta Swami by one advaita philosopher).]
[Opponent:- Absolute God is unimaginable. The process of creation of first item (space) from unimaginable God is also unimaginable. The entry of unimaginable God in to first energetic form (Hiranyagarbha) is also unimaginable. The entry of unimaginable God into a specific devoted human being is also unimaginable. In conclusion, the theory of Datta Swami itself is unimaginable!
Theorist:- Unimaginable God is imaginable to Himself and hence before creation, God was imaginable only since no soul other than God existed. He is unimaginable to any other soul in this creation because He is beyond space whereas soul is defined by the space. The reason for God being unimaginable to soul is imaginable! Creation of imaginable item from unimaginable item and entry of unimaginable item in to imaginable item don’t exist in the world as examples. We have only generation and entry between two imaginable items defined by space in the world as examples and we can understand only the phenomena taking place between items defined by space. The reason for not understanding the phenomena taking place between unimaginable item (which is beyond space) and imaginable item is also unimaginable to be understood. Even though we have understood that why an item is unimaginable, but, we have not understood the unimaginable item becoming an imaginable item. The reason for not understanding unimaginable item is that it is beyond the space. Since the item to be understood is beyond space and the item understanding it is below (controlled or defined by space) space, this conversion becomes unimaginable since, in world, we observe only conversion between two imaginable items only. If this space-factor disappears, the item to understand (soul) also disappears being a part of the space! The soul is even incapable of understanding the situation through imagination also in assuming the dissolution of space since this very understanding is based on the concept of space only.
Shri Narasimhasaraswati, human incarnation of God Datta, attended lunch in eight villages at the same time on the same day. If you analyze this miracle, the unimaginable nature of unimaginable God (Parabrahma) entering Shri Narasimhasaraswati (a specific human being) through Eshwara called as Datta (first energetic incarnation) is well explained, it clarifies all the doubts on the theory of unimaginable domain or unimaginable God. Shri Narasimhasaraswati is imaginable awareness (soul) with which the unimaginable awareness (unimaginable God) merged through merged Eshwara called as Datta. He was invited to eight villages for lunch on the same Deepaavali day and He attended all the villages for lunch while remaining in His original asylum (Aashrama) taking lunch there also. This proves that He is beyond space-concept. This concept of unimaginable nature was exhibited by the imaginable human being called as Shri Narasimhasaraswati Swamiji and not by the unimaginable-invisible God beyond the space (world). This incident gives following proven points:- 1) Swamiji is imaginable human being, but, proves Himself to be unimaginable human being or unimaginable God through this miracle. 2) This proves that the unimaginable God is converted into a specific imaginable human being and such imaginable human being exactly behaves like unimaginable God existing beyond space. 3) This miracle is done in the world (space) and not beyond space. This means that unimaginable God (beyond space) can exist in this space also without losing His unimaginable nature, which requires Him to exist beyond space. 4) The essential requirement of the unimaginable nature is its existence beyond space. But, this miracle proves that such unimaginable nature exists even in an imaginable human being existing in this world (space). This point explains the entry of unimaginable God (beyond space) into space (world) as said in the Veda (tadevaanupraavishat). 5) This contradiction between unimaginable nature (beyond space) and imaginable nature (existing in the space) disappears since such disappearance of contradiction itself is unimaginable nature. 6) The unimaginable God is converted into imaginable human being called as Swamiji (through the merge of God Datta), who (Swamiji) exhibited unimaginable nature (beyond space) while Himself remaining as an imaginable human being. 7) The unimaginable nature (beyond space) is exhibited in the space by an imaginable form defined by space and this is impossible to the logic of imaginable items.
The conclusion is that the unimaginable God existing beyond space appeared in the imaginable space (world) as imaginable human being defined by space and at the same time, exhibited that He is above space. Swamiji remaining in His asylum appeared in eight villages at the same time and this proves that the unimaginable God while existing beyond space can exist in different places of this imaginable space simultaneously. According to worldly logic, if X is converted in to Y, X shall disappear. But, X is converted in to Y while X exists as X and such X is called as unimaginable item. Such conversion is called as unimaginable power or nature or process. Hence, if unimaginable God existing beyond space appeared in space, He shall disappear there simultaneously according to worldly logic. But, unimaginable God exists beyond space while appearing simultaneously in the space in imaginable form and this is proved by Swamiji, who while existing in His asylum, existed in eight villages simultaneously. Not only this, even the single imaginable form appears at various places of the imaginable space, proving itself to be unimaginable simultaneously. This means that unimaginable God, not only appears in space while remaining beyond space, but also, appears at various places of space simultaneously as different incarnations. Akkalkot Maharaj and Sai Baba were simultaneous incarnations of God Datta in different places of this space at the same time. {You need not doubt the above miracle exhibited by Shri Narasimhasaraswati as a created story written in the book called as ‘Gurucharitram’. If you refer the miracles of God Datta exhibited through the author of this book (who as the human being-component doesn’t deserve even to touch the dust of the lotus feet of Shri Narasimhasaraswati) in a book called ‘Mahima Yamuna’, one similar miracle proves the simultaneous presence of this author in five places at the same time on the same day. Still, atheists will not believe this or that and we can only express our deep pain for the fate of our atheist-brothers}.
If you compare Swamiji with an ordinary human being, the common components in both are:- 1) Awareness (Praajna or Brahma), 2) Inert matter (Vishva or Vishnu) and 3) Inert energy (Viraat or Shiva). The miracle didn’t happen due to anyone of these three components because these three components are present in ordinary human being also, which is unable to do this miracle. The fourth component doing unimaginable miracle must be also unimaginable, which is called as unimaginable God (Turiyam or Parabrahma). Now, it is clear that the fourth component is neither awareness nor inert matter/ inert energy, which is beyond these three components. Since it knows, you need not conclude that it is awareness. It also burns anything and due to this you need not conclude that it is inert fire or energy. It is neither non-inert awareness by thinking nor is inert energy by burning and this is worldly logic. It is beyond worldly logic and hence, unimaginable to do both these works (thinking and burning) without being awareness or energy respectively. We are calling it as Parabrahma, which means that it is beyond Brahman. The word Brahman means greatest, which can apply to it also. But, this word Brahman is also used to mean every greatest item in a category (ex:-the Veda is called as Brahman being greatest in books, food is Brahman being greatest in materials, awareness is Brahman being greatest in forms of energy etc.). Shankara used the word Brahman to awareness (Jivo Brahmaiva) since awareness is greatest among the items created and hence, it is called as ‘Paraaprakruti’, which means greatest in the creation. Same Shankara used this word ‘Parabrahma’ for the unimaginable God (expressed through silence only being beyond words) by saying “maunavyaakhyaa prakatita Parabrahma tattvam”. This Parabrahma (creator) is greater than awareness (greatest created item) and hence, should be ultimate absolute greatest. In this way, the philosophy of Shankara expressed in His own words is also justified from all angles. When this Parabrahma is mediated by any medium (created item), such medium is also Parabrahma (due to total merge) since the medium is the perfect expression of Parabrahma (unimaginable God).
Hence, this theory is developed from the analysis of practically happening incidents called as miracles and thus, each miracle is a treasure of spiritual knowledge like each practical experiment in the laboratory is a treasure of scientific knowledge. Unfortunately, miracles are neglected by scholars of spiritual knowledge since these are generally used for solving selfish problems by devotees! But, these shall be used by the analysis to develop justified true concepts of spiritual knowledge. Hence, spiritual knowledge is justified true belief (JTB theory of knowledge) and the concept of unimaginable domain or absolute God is theory and not mere hypothesis since the absolute plane exists in the relative plane also expressed here and there through items of relative plane only in the imaginable domain. Hence, the author of this book declares from today onwards to call the spiritual knowledge as spiritual science.]
[The repetition of the statement indicates the end of this book.]
Datta Veda Sutram is completed.
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